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Calpine (CPN) Thad Hill on Q4 2015 Results – Earnings Call Transcript
Operator Good morning and welcome to the Fourth Quarter 2015 Earnings Conference Call. My name is Brandon and I will be your operator for today. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Please note this conference is being recorded. And I will now turn it over to Mr. Bryan Kimzey, Vice President of Investor Relations & Financial Planning. You may begin, sir. W. Bryan Kimzey – Vice President-Investor Relations & Financial Planning Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. I’d like to welcome you to Calpine’s investor update conference call covering our fourth quarter and full year 2015 results. Today’s call is being broadcast live over the phone and via webcast, which can be found on our website at www.calpine.com. You can access the webcast and a copy of the accompanying presentation materials in the Investor Relations section of our website. Joining me for this morning’s call are Thad Hill, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Trey Griggs, our Chief Commercial Officer; and Zamir Rauf, our Chief Financial Officer. In addition, Thad Miller, our Chief Legal Officer; and Andrew Novotny, SVP, Commercial Operations, are also with us to address any questions you may have on legal, regulatory or detailed commercial issues. Before we begin the presentation, I encourage all listeners to review the Safe Harbor statement included on slide two of the presentation, which explains the risks of forward-looking statements and the use of non-GAAP financial measures. For additional information, please refer to our most recent SEC filings, which are on file with the SEC and on Calpine’s website. Additionally, we would like to advise you that statements made during this call are made as of this date, and listeners to any replay should understand that the passage of time, by itself, will diminish the quality of these statements. After our prepared remarks, we’ll open the lines for questions. In the interest of time, each caller will be allowed one question and one follow-up only. I’ll now turn the call over to Thad to lead our presentation. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Thank you, Bryan. Good morning to all of you on the call and thank you for your interest in Calpine. We are living in interesting times. Very low gas prices, increasing renewable integration, tighter EPA rules, the financial peril of traditional base load generation, and now high yield debt markets that are demanding high returns for certain businesses. In the midst of all of this, we at Calpine are heads down and continuing to execute our plan and we believe that many of these dynamics actually help our business over the medium term. In fact, over the course of today’s call, we hope to remind investors the many ways we are very different from our peers: our assets, our capital allocation approach, and our focus on customers, and why we expect those differences to uniquely position us to outperform. With that context, I’m pleased to report that in 2015 Calpine delivered record adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow per share and that today we are reaffirming our 2016 guidance. For 2015, we achieved adjusted EBITDA of $1.976 billion and adjusted free cash flow per share of $2.31, despite bearing the burden of a cumulative $36 million impact from the September wildfire at the Geysers. We generated almost 115 million megawatt hours of electricity in a reliable and safe way as we continue to serve our customers. Despite mild weather, low commodity prices, and the wildfire at our Geysers facilities, the men and women of the Calpine team stayed focused and delivered. Since our third quarter call, we’ve continued to make progress on several other fronts as well. One of the things that sets us apart from our competition is our active portfolio management. Last week, we’re excited to closing our purchase of Granite Ridge in New England. We’ve also recently made some tougher choices. In Texas, we have mothballed one unit at our Clear Lake Energy Center that was not economic to repair. And much more meaningfully, in California, we have announced the suspension of operations at our Sutter Energy Center. Sutter is a well-run modern and flexible plant. It faces certain locational challenges that portended a negative cash flow period for some time, so we elected to remove it from service. Trey will discuss our California business in more detail since it has attracted some new investor attention as of late. But rest assured, Sutter was a unique case without read-through to the rest of our business there. Another thing that sets us apart is our focus on customers. Last year, we entered the retail market in a meaningful way with our purchase of Champion Energy. Meanwhile, we continued our focus on wholesale customers as well, particularly but not exclusively public power. Today we announced three notable new customer transactions. Our Morgan plant in Alabama has signed a 10-year contract with TVA to commence this month. We have signed a 10-year multi-hundred-megawatt extension of our contract beyond 2021 with the South Texas Electric Cooperative, a customer that we’ve been serving for some time. Finally, we have continued our progress with Community Choice Aggregation in California and are happy to announce a new three-year contract with the City of San Francisco. Meanwhile, Zamir, Stacey and the finance team have remained busy as well. Since our last call, as we’ve announced today, we’ve extended the maturity of our revolver by two years and added $178 million of incremental capacity into 2018. We have closed the $550 million term loan at very attractive pricing. We’ve paid down $120 million of almost 8% debt, and we restructured part of our Pasadena lease in a delevering transaction. Hats off to the team in a very difficult environment for high-yield issuers, we have been continuing to strengthen and evolve our balance sheet to position ourselves even better. These efforts have given us momentum into 2016. And I’d like to address briefly our plans this year for capital allocation and our to-do list on the next slide. We expect 2016 to be a year full of action, marking continued progress against our aggressive agenda, to grow adjusted free cash flow per share in a balanced way. At a high level, looking ahead to 2016, we will be investing almost $800 million in growth, split between our Granite Ridge acquisition and organic growth, most notably our York 2 facility in Pennsylvania. We will be paying off, at a minimum, almost $450 million of debt. There are various attractive options to do so, which Zamir will cover. This will leave us with roughly $0.5 billion of remaining capital to deploy, although most of this cash will come in during the second half of the year. I’m sure there is probably a lot of interest in how we’re thinking more broadly about go-forward capital allocation at this juncture, including our plans for the roughly $0.5 billion that we’ll accumulate by year-end. Yes, we believe our stock is cheap. We’re also mindful that the turbulent environment could give rise to other opportunities. As we have in the past, we will seek to be balanced in our allocation with multiple objectives: maintain a balance sheet with strength and flexibility that gives our investors confidence; seek to take advantage of market disruptions to create value; return money to our shareholders, which is the yardstick by which we measure all other investments; and to be clear, we continue to believe our stock represents a real opportunity. As the year progresses and we meet our current growth and debt pay-down commitments and the deployable cash balances begin to build, we will be making decisions on how best to deploy it. Beyond discussing capital allocation, I also want to describe what you should expect from us more broadly this year. As you have come to expect, our key focus is to remain the premier power generation operating company. Our focus on the plants, the safety of our employees, and maintaining a lean cost structure served us well and defines who we are as a team. We’ve also continued our focus on portfolio management. Of course, our first job here is to close the sale of our Osprey plant in Florida to Duke at the end of the year. Beyond that, we still believe that there are plants in our portfolio that others value more than our shareholders do. While progress has been a little slow here than we’d like, given the external environment, rest assured, we’re continuing our work. There could also be opportunities to grow. But for any capital we deploy towards growth, we’ll have to believe it will create more value than buying our own stock. And as I just mentioned, that is a high hurdle. We will maintain our momentum on the customer side. Champion continues on a nice track, and we are working to build upon our industry-leading wholesale origination efforts. Zamir and team will continue to look for opportunities to improve our balance sheet. And finally, we will continue to be very active in defending competitive wholesale power markets through our advocacy efforts. As you can see, there’s a lot to do in 2016, and we will not be standing still. On the next slide, I’d like to close the way I opened by highlighting how different we are from really any other in regulated energy business much less power businesses and how beneficial these differences are to us in today’s market. Our assets are the best there are. Our combined-cycle gas turbine fleet with an average age of 12 years has decades of useful life remaining. And they’ve demonstrated this year how important flexibility is in markets with more and more intermittent renewables. There are also no encouraging environmental concerns at all for us. And despite the Supreme Court stay of the Clean Power Plan, coal generators still must comply with MATS, a number of coal ash disposal issues, and in Texas the regional haze rule. We think a couple of specific transactions in PJM in the fourth quarter of 2015 highlighted the premium value of our fleet compared to traditional base load generation. A combined-cycle gas turbine sold for nearly six times what a coal plant sold for on a $1 per KW basis, and this coal plant was fully controlled. I pointed this out because this distinction matters a lot, and the private market has done a better job so far in realizing it. As a company, unlike most other energy-producing companies, we’re relatively immune to shocks from any one commodity. Although longer-term gas prices certainly impact our competitive environment, our units have demonstrated the ability to make money in both high and low gas price environments. Our balance sheet is solid. The recent upsize and extension of our revolver by the banks that know is best demonstrates this. We have a high debt service coverage ratio and no near-term maturities, nor do we have subsidiaries that can be distressed. Our cash flow as a percent of our EBITDA is the highest of our peers and above that of companies and other comparable sectors. Because of our modern fleet takes less maintenance dollars, has no environmental CapEx requirements or legacy liabilities to fund, and because of our tax net operating loss positions, $1 of EBITDA means more than $0.40 of free cash flow available to pay down debt, return to shareholders or fund growth. And finally, we think we’ve differentiated ourselves in capital allocation, not just buying plants, although we do that and like it when we get a good deal, but also selling plants when someone values them more and making the hard twist to lay up plants that are losing money. Yes, gas prices are low, the EPA is active beyond the Clean Power Plan and more renewables are coming. But our fleet, and we think the way we operate it, clearly set us apart and uniquely position us to take advantage of the evolving landscape and outperform. I’m very excited about what the next several years hold for Calpine. With that, I’ll turn it over to Trey. Trey Griggs – Chief Commercial Officer & Executive VP Thank you, Thad, and good morning to everyone joining the call. As Thad just described, Calpine stands apart from the crowd in many respects. Among them is our dedication to operational excellence as evidenced by the statistics on the slide. Once again, our safety performance lies well within the top quartile. Our 2015 forced outage factor, excluding the impact of the Geysers wildfire, was just above 2%, an outstanding performance by industry standards. The honor roll of plants with exemplary performance in these areas is included in our appendix. As always, our sincere thanks and congratulations go out to those teams. In addition, let me also extend my thanks to the continued efforts of our team at the Geysers, where we are now back to 80% of our pre-wildfire generation levels, and expect to be fully restored by the end of the third quarter. Yet another way in which Calpine is distinguished from its peers is its resilience in a low gas priced environment, which is based in part upon our ability to increase generation volumes given low fuel prices. In particular, generation in Texas and the East increased in 2015 as a result of low natural gas prices, even after adjusting for portfolio changes in both periods. Meanwhile, in the West, generation volumes from our gas fleet increased as a result of low hydro generation in 2015. Moving to the chart in the bottom right, it’s worth noting that this is our first earnings call with a full quarter of operations from our retail platform, Champion Energy. At Champion, we met our goal of serving more than 22 million megawatt hours of load in 2015. That’s a 24% increase over the prior year. Similarly, we have extended the weighted average deal tenor from 22 months in 2014, to 28 months in 2015, a 27% improvement. Put simply, the Champion investment is absolutely delivering. In the four months since we acquired Champion, I’ve been impressed by the caliber of the people and the growth the team has delivered. It really is a remarkable and profitable liquidity platform. Speaking of liquidity and the market Champion provides for megawatts generated off of our fleet, on the next slide, I will address our other two sources of market liquidity, contract origination and forward markets. In fact, our origination efforts are yet another way that we further differentiate ourselves from our peers. You’ll see in the upper right corner of the slide a summary of some of the new contracts we’ve added since our last call; activity across the fleet with a variety of customers, including a government agency in the East, public power in Texas, and a community choice aggregator in California. We continue to identify opportunities to serve all types of customers in many different ways. Looking at our disclosures, you’ll see that we have added to our hedge positions in all three years, most notably in 2016. The increases in 2017 and 2018 are primarily related to the addition of a 10-year contract at Morgan, as well as some additional financial hedging in 2017. Across all years, we are more highly hedged today than we were for the equivalent periods on last year’s fourth quarter call. We’ve been opportunistic where possible, yet are still open enough to benefit from recovery in our markets. As for 2016, lower spark spreads, as shown in the table on the lower right, are clearly a challenge, as is the return of normal hydro conditions in the West, which we think could reduce our gas-fired generation by 5 million or more megawatt hours year-over-year. However, we were highly hedged this winter, positioning us well for the first quarter despite mild weather early on. In addition, we are 80% hedged for the remainder of this year, including the benefit of the Morgan contract which was effective immediately. Before moving on, let me mention that for the first time this quarter, we are presenting the New England or NEPOOL spark spreads on this slide on a clean basis, incorporating the costs of environmental credits associated with the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative, just as we do with the Northern California or NP-15 spark spreads, which similarly account for AB32 allowances. You’ll notice similar update in our modeling tips in the appendix. Speaking of California, let’s turn to the following slide, where we outline the prospects for our fleet in what is quite possibly the nation’s most rapidly evolving power market. The goal of this slide is to provide absolute clarity with respect to Calpine’s position in the state. Today, our renewable Geysers assets and our contracted natural gas-fired fleet collective account for approximate 95% of our free cash in California, as shown by the chart in the top left. Before going into further detail, please note that free cash, as presented here, is not directly comparable to the consolidated free cash flow for which we give guidance. The cash flows on this slide do not include any allocations of corporate overhead costs or corporate interest. As you can see from this chart, a large portion of our California fleet, about 3,500 megawatts is currently composed of merchant capacity, operating under RA contracts of varying tenor. All told, this capacity contributes quite little in terms of free cash, yet acts as an option on future market conditions. More on that in a moment. Within the merchant capacity bucket, you can see that the last segment of the orange area on the chart takes a turn downward. This circled area represents our Sutter plant north of Sacramento. Due to its unique isolation from the CAISO, Sutter is disadvantaged by burdensome transmission charges and the receipt of system, not local, resource adequacy payments. These factors have weighed on the economic outlook for Sutter, leading us to take the swift and decisive action of suspending operations at the plant. We do believe that Sutter offers many features that will be important to California over the longer term, but we will not continue to operate it at a loss while we wait for the market to recognize and appropriately reward these characteristics. The chart on the bottom left provides a plant-by-plant summary of the contracts for capacity and energy that drive the economics depicted by the chart above it. A few key messages worth highlighting. As I introduced on our third quarter call, we are deliberately transitioning our Geysers indexed contracts to fixed price agreements. You’ll see that over the next couple of years, we materially shift to the balance of these positions. With respect to our three largest contracted gas assets, Otay Mesa has a put-call option at the end of its PPA that we expect will, at a minimum, fully retire the project debt associated with that plant. In addition, Russell City and Los Esteros have nearly $800 million of project-level debt that fully amortizes by the end of their respective contracts. As a result, as we consider the potential risks associated with roll-off of the contracts in the blue bucket, we note that nearly half of the cash flows are satisfying debt amortizations, and thus, the net downside exposure is limited. The culmination of all of these items means that we have relatively limited merchant exposure through 2023 and limited risk to corporate cash flow beyond that. I cannot predict the future, but I can say with absolute confidence that the California market of the future will look nothing like the market today. No matter what that future looks like, further penetration of renewables and retirements of once-through cooling units and possibly other capacity, lead us to believe that our fleet will play a necessary role. As you can see from the chart in the upper right, we believe our assets will be needed more and more as the afternoon peaks continue and gas remains an important part of the solution. In sum, as we think about our California position in the middle of the next decade, I take the view that our existing merchant assets represent minimal downside exposure from today’s economics while offering real option value. These plants are already playing an important role in meeting the state’s reliability needs while advancing its goal of increased renewable penetration and will continue to do so into the future. And I believe that our contracted assets are of such a nature that whether due to the unmatched flexibility of our peakers, or the locationally significant contributions of Russell City and Los Esteros, we will be able to capture meaningful value in the future. I’ll wrap up my remarks on the following slide with some comments on the Texas and East markets. In Texas, after our last earnings call, ERCOT published its most recent report on systems, supply and demand conditions. This report paints a picture much different from the reality we believe exists in the market. In order to more accurately represent market conditions, we have prepared what we call an economic reserve margin or the margin after which incremental load will price at scarcity prices of $1,000 a megawatt hour or higher, all the way to the system-wide offer cap of $9,000 a megawatt hour. To calculate the economic reserve margin, we first add back the load that is served by the resources that trigger these scarcity prices when deployed, which includes reserves, emergency response, and load management resources. Next, we adjust the projected incremental fossil capacity to remove projects that currently are unlikely as they are not yet under construction and lacks funding, something that we believe will be hard to come by from rational investors in the current market. This adjustment accounts for the removal of approximately 4,500 megawatts in 2019. Meanwhile, we also make adjustments to account for the two Exelon projects that are currently under construction. We accelerate the plant that is currently in the CDR into 2017 to be consistent with Exelon’s public remarks about projected start date, and we add their second plant in 2018 that was not included in the CDR. Lastly, we reduced the contributions of solar-installed capacity to account for typical output, coincident with peak demand. The result of all of these adjustments paints a much tighter picture than the CDR as published. And it should not go without notice that the CDR does not contemplate any future retirements of assets which we believe are very real prospects. In fact, the entire economic reserve margin in 2019 is roughly equivalent in size to the amount of coal capacity impacted by regional haze compliance obligations that could trigger retirement decisions. We remain positive in our outlook for Texas and that market moving forward, particularly given ongoing discussions about ORDC reform. In the East, we continue to see margin shift from energy to capacity markets. Incremental newbuilds and PJM are driving backwardated forward energy curves. However, the capacity markets continue to evolve favorably as we progress toward a 100% capacity performance requirement over the next two auctions. On the demand response front, the recent Supreme Court decision will have relatively limited impact in our view. In fact, we welcome DR as a market participant now that it is competing on an even playing field. Where capacity markets are concerned, DR participation has already likely been muted by the introduction of the CP product. And where energy markets are concerned, DR actually sets the price when called upon during scarcity, which would be favorable. Where the recent ruling has more interesting implications is as a potential read-through for federal jurisdiction. And whether that bears any weight on the outstanding Maryland case, the anti-competitive contracts in Ohio, or even national net energy metering policies. Stay tuned. In New England, the auction for 2019, 2020 concluded this week. The results were consistent with the auction two years ago, but below last year’s results. Nonetheless, we continue to view this constrained market favorably and expect future year auction results will remain at or above this level for some time. With that, thank you all again for your time this morning, and I’ll now turn it over to Zamir. Zamir Rauf – Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President Thank you, Trey, and good morning, everyone. I’m proud to say that in 2015, the Calpine team rose to the occasion to face the challenges that Thad and Trey mentioned earlier, enabling us to successfully deliver on our financial commitment, and in the process, set the Calpine record for adjusted EBITDA, adjusted free cash flow and adjusted free cash flow per share. Our focus on operational excellence, particularly given increased generation levels, our ability to effectively hedge, including through our new retail platform, Champion Energy, and our ongoing portfolio management efforts, resulted in a $27 million increase in adjusted EBITDA year-over-year, which clearly speaks to the resilience of our business and our people. We were able to achieve these results despite a mild summer in the East, only to be followed by the warmest winter on record in both Texas and the East, and the tragic wildfire in Northern California, that alone resulted in a $36 million negative adjusted EBITDA impact in 2015. The economic impact of the Geysers wildfire is now essentially behind us in 2015, although for this year, we may experience some timing differences for insurance proceeds. I am pleased that our continued execution of operational excellence, effective hedging and customer origination are keeping us on track to once again deliver on our commitments for 2016. On the following slide, let’s briefly review our adjusted EBITDA performance for the fourth quarter, including the primary year-over-year drivers, summarized on the chart in the upper left. During the fourth quarter, we incurred $29 million of the $36 million 2015 impact from the Geysers wildfire, driven by a combination of repairs and revenue losses. Regulatory capacity payments resulted in a year-over-year improvement of $25 million, driven primarily by higher PJM capacity revenues. And lastly, we benefited in the fourth quarter from hedges across all three regions, including retail hedging with the addition of Champion in the fourth quarter. In all, we achieved $45 million of quarter-over-quarter adjusted EBITDA growth. Our 2015 commercial and operational performance was matched by our continued success at derisking the balance sheet and actively managing our capital structure. On the following slide, we provide an overview of our most recent achievements in this area. Amongst many significant transactions, we are pleased to announce an upsize and two-year extension of our $1.5 billion corporate revolver. We extended the maturity from June of 2018 to June of 2020 with an upsize of $178 million through the original maturity date of June 2018. The culmination of these efforts is clear. We have no near-term debt maturity, almost $2 billion of liquidity and three times interest coverage. As always, we are actively allocating our capital in a very accretive and balanced way. As Thad mentioned earlier, we have committed to growth via our Granite Ridge acquisition along with the ongoing construction of York 2. We will also be paying off a minimum of $435 million of debt in 2016. This will occur through a combination of regular amortizations of approximately $210 million and the application of $225 million from the excess proceeds of our 2023 first lien term loans. We have already committed to buying back $50 million of our high interest rate capital lease on our Pasadena plant. As for the balance, we are considering a variety of other available options which could include; paying down high interest rate project level debt, redeeming our 2023 notes, of which $120 million is callable in the fourth quarter of this year with the remaining balance of $453 million becoming callable next January, or paying down other corporate debt. Beyond these commitments, we continue to evaluate our options to further reduce debt and extend our maturity, all while continuing to make disciplined decisions on capital deployment that will preserve flexibility, while maintaining the strength of our balance sheet. Wrapping up on the following slide, you’ve heard a lot today about how Calpine stands tall above the crowd. From my vantage point, our key differentiators are our people, stable financial positioning and premium asset quality. We have no near-term debt maturities. Our strong liquidity is supported by consistently strong free cash flow that translates into the highest EBITDA conversion rate in the sector, and our customer origination and hedging activities continue to further reinforce the stability of our financial performance. We have the right assets to sustain the stability moving forward. Unlike others, our modern, clean and efficient fleet is not answering questions about longevity of livelihood, environmental retrofit, and competitiveness against low-price natural gas. Calpine’s strong financial footing, modern fleet and insulation from commodity shocks leaves us uniquely positioned to weather the current environment, which we will do through continued operational excellence, effective hedging, and balanced and disciplined capital allocation. With that, let me thank you once again for your time this morning. Operator, please open the lines for Q&A. Question-and-Answer Session Operator Thank you, sir. And from Tudor, Pickering & Holt, we have Neel Mitra on line. Please go ahead. Neel Mitra – Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. Securities, Inc. Hi. Good morning. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Good morning, Neel. Neel Mitra – Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. Securities, Inc. I had a question on maybe growth CapEx or acquisitions. Obviously, there’s now a push to deleverage within your space. When you look at potential acquisitions, are there additional hurdles that you normally didn’t have to look at before that you are looking at now to justify an investment specifically that something have to be credit-accretive as well as equity-accretive for you to pursue it? Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Yeah, Neel. That’s a good question. The way we have always looked at the deals that we have done is that they are free cash flow accretive to us because we typically have done deals with kind of this balance sheet leverage, we’ve always tried to make sure they’re also credit-accretive. And so I would say those same two hurdles remain in place for us, which is we find opportunities most interesting there about free cash and credit-accretive. And I don’t think anything has changed from that. We’ll continue to hold ourselves to that standard. Neel Mitra – Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. Securities, Inc. Okay. Great. And then I just wanted maybe get some additional color on the slide where you guys are noting that the DR decision may have a read-through to the Ohio PPAs and the Maryland and New Jersey subsidies. Could you maybe go in a more detail on what those read-throughs could be? W. Thaddeus Miller – Secretary, Chief Legal Officer & Executive VP Hi, Neel. It’s Thad Miller. Sure. 745 megawatt in our reading of it really had a pretty broad interpretation of per jurisdiction. We know there were some bits in there that suggested in some aspects in our jurisdiction. But our read on balance is that it was broader jurisdictions. So if we look at it on a read-through for Maryland, we think that the four federal courts have already ruled in favor of the preemption mandate there. We think that it was a surprise that the Supreme Court accepted it, but we still think that the Supreme Court would be disposed under that broad interpretation of FERC jurisdiction to uphold the lower courts. I think the important thing to remember about that also is that the impact on the market will be minimal because since those cases started the New Jersey and the Maryland contracts were entered into, in PJM, they instituted a MOPR, a Minimum Offer Price Rule that’s been FERC-approved that would effectively undermine the ability of the states to do what they propose to do in the first instance there. In terms of Ohio, the broad FERC jurisdiction is important there. But I think perhaps more importantly in terms of any challenges at the federal level to what they’re proposing to do in Ohio is that we see this as a potential violation of the utility affiliate self-dealing rule that FERC has in place. And we would expect it to be challenged if in fact the PUC approves the proposed settlement. We would expect it to be reviewed by FERC. Maybe just to back up less on the FERC jurisdictional aspect of what’s going on in Ohio, we think it’s crazy what they’re doing in Ohio because effectively the proposal saddles ratepayers was somewhere between $2.5 billion and $4 billion of additional costs over the next eight years. And the market can serve that load much more economically. So we’re hopeful that as these facts have come to light after the settlement was reached that the PUC itself will have the fortitude to overrule it. But if they don’t, we would expect to challenge it in state court, and as I mentioned, in the federal court. But again, in a similar way to what we talked about with respect to Maryland, we don’t expect it to have a meaningful impact on the market because even if they bid in those units to PJM, they’d have to bid them in a cost and we would expect that those costs would not include the benefit of the subsidies that are being proposed. Neel Mitra – Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. Securities, Inc. Right. Okay. Great. Thank you. Operator From UBS, we have Julien Dumoulin-Smith. Please go ahead. Julien Dumoulin-Smith – UBS Securities LLC Hi. Good morning. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Hey. Good morning, Julien. Julien Dumoulin-Smith – UBS Securities LLC So, perhaps, just to follow up a little bit on the deleveraging theme. Can you talk about any new targets, if any? I mean, how are you thinking about what you previously laid out? Is there a need to reevaluate those targets more structurally? And then I suppose in tandem with that, how are you thinking about liquidity needs? I know you kind of talked about like a $1 billion threshold kind of informally and historically, but is that kind of still standard? Is there kind of a new thought on liquidity? Zamir Rauf – Chief Financial Officer & Executive Vice President Sure. Hey, Julien. This is Zamir. Julien, as you know, we’ve talked about a leverage target of between 4.5 times to 5.5 times. And while we are towards the top end of that today. I am incredibly comfortable with where we are. As you know, right leverage is a combination of debt and EBITDA. We have talked on this call about paying up almost $0.5 billion of debt this year alone. We’re also evaluating other high interest rate projects and corporate debt and we have the 2023s and that will be callable in January of 2017, and that’s about $450 million. So, with that, with the fact that we have incredibly strong liquidity, no near-term maturities, very high interest coverage, strong free cash flow conversions, Julien, I’m very comfortable where we are today. So I don’t think we need to evaluate the range. I think we just need to make sure that we are very prudent with how we move forward over here. In terms of liquidity, $1 billion has always been our target. That’s probably a little higher than we need, but we are conservative. We upsized the revolver, as you know, $178 million through the middle of 2018 and then extended it through 2020. And so we have more than ample liquidity to run the business and also to be opportunistic, if the need were to arise. So I’m incredibly comfortable, Julien, with where we are today. Julien Dumoulin-Smith – UBS Securities LLC And let me actually run with your last comment there, being opportunistic, and maybe this is the question for the broader team. How do you see an opportunity to be opportunistic given the current market environment? Obviously, there’s a lot of distress out there. Is there an ability to take advantage of this and capitalize on it? Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Julien, we just have to understand the opportunities that present themselves over time. Clearly, some valuations will come down and, clearly, there will be some folks that are in a strong financial as we are and there may be opportunities. But beyond that, I don’t think we can really get more specific, but we’re going to pay attention to see if there’s opportunity in this type of environment. And if there is, as we mentioned, we’re well positioned to take advantage of it certainly. And we think our – the way our balance sheet is positioned and trading is an advantage to others. Julien Dumoulin-Smith – UBS Securities LLC Great. Thank you, guys. Operator From Morgan Stanley, we have Stephen Byrd on line. Please go ahead. Stephen Calder Byrd – Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Hi. Good morning. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Good morning, Stephen. Stephen Calder Byrd – Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Wanted to discuss the market environment for sales of assets. This is something that a number of companies have been talking about for some time. From your perspective, broadly, do we have a sufficiently robust buyer universe relative to the amount of supply in the sense of number of assets that are available for sale. Do you believe there is differential in terms of contracted versus merchant in terms of market appetite? Where do you sort of see the opportunity and is there really a sufficiently a large enough buyer universe? Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Yeah. Julien, that’s a great question. I’m sorry, Stephen. I apologize. Great question. We have a set of assets that we do think could be more valued by others. But it’s not every asset and it’s not in all circumstances. There continue to be, in some places, utility interest in an asset, which could be put in rate base, and that’s equivalent to what we did at Duke. With Duke, with their Osprey plant in Florida, which as you know we’ll close on the end of the year. There are also some assets that do have contract to cash flows where they can support high-quality project debt or where there’s already project debt in place where there could still be value or you’re not being held captive by the current high-yield markets. And so we’re going to continue to explore that, as we always have. And so we’ll see if something makes sense or not. And so – but I wouldn’t say that there’s been any stepped up effort on our part. It’s something that we’ve done all along and we’ll continue to do. If somebody values it more than we do, they ultimately can own it. Stephen Calder Byrd – Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Understood. Understood. And turning to California, we were happy to see the San Francisco contract. And you did talk about the locational challenges around Sutter, but can you talk a little bit further about how to distinguish Sutter from the rest of the fleet? And also, we do get questions from investors about the ability to not just have the assets physically survived and be in the market, but actually to thrive, i.e., to create significant positive margin in terms of contracts, et cetera. Any color you can provide around the outlook? And there clearly seems to be a need for gas assets in the market, yet there is a lot of skepticism on ability to turn that into real margin. Could you speak to the environment in California? Trey Griggs – Chief Commercial Officer & Executive VP Sure. Well, specifically with respect to your question around Sutter, it has a uniquely disadvantaged position with respect to transmission. And so, I wouldn’t read through our decision to lay out Sutter through to other assets. It’s a fine modern flexible plant but had a unique transmission issue. With respect to the rest of the fleet, ignoring for the moment the contracted natural gas assets and our Geysers asset, the nature of your question seems to suggest the value of our merchant fleet. And on slide 10, we point out in the bottom right graph that as you suggest natural gas is necessary to the California landscape for a long time to come. And our fleet, we think as I said in my prepared remarks represents real option value. On the top right of that same slide, you note the steepening ramps. Other generation sources are not as flexible as ours and unable to respond to that steep ramp the way that ours can. And so, as those ramps steepen, our merchant fleet becomes more valuable. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director And, Stephen, I point to probably five separate indications, so just to kind of give a list that are all kind of ongoing in California. And anyone of these doesn’t change the world, but all of them I think are pretty constructive. First, there is the new FlexiRamp product at the CAISO, which will pay – which could pay assets with flexibility. Secondly, there are a lot of once-through cooling units that could retire. Third, there is a nuclear plant where there is always the question on new licensing. So, we’ll see how that goes. Fourth, the PUC is actually looking at what they consider effective alternate capacity for solar, which is whether or not how much solar can you account towards capacity, if there is an overdue (43:05) situation and we think there’ll be some news on that relatively soon. And finally, there’s the discussion about the expansion in the California market. Today for power to leave California, there’s a fee, and there is not to come the other way. And the expansion of the Western markets that could remove that could also be a fairly – show some upside. So, again, none of these individually, that’s a laundry list matter. But I would say taken together, we think the fundamentals are only going to get better from here. Stephen Calder Byrd – Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC That’s super helpful. I just wanted to follow-up on the San Francisco contract. And is there any – I imagine the specifics are confidential. But is there any color you can give in terms of margin potential just because that is a new contract in terms of evidence of being able to generate margin from new contracts? Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director No, we can’t speak to the specifics of the commercial terms of the transaction. But what we can say that there has been a growing Community Choice Aggregation effort in the state of California and our team, our origination efforts, are very focused on capturing more than our fair share of that market. And we’ve been incredibly successful to-date. Stephen Calder Byrd – Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC Great. Thank you very much. Operator From Merrill Lynch, we have Brian Chin on line. Please go ahead. Brian J. Chin – Bank of America Merrill Lynch Hi. Good morning. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Good morning, Brian. Brian J. Chin – Bank of America Merrill Lynch Just to be clear piggybacking off Stephen’s question. So, I guess, what we’re saying then is when we look at that bottom left chart on slide 10 and we see Metcalf, Delta, Pastoria, Gilroy, Los Medanos, what we’re saying is that as those contracts roll off, they won’t go the same way as Sutter. The fundamental backdrop for California still looks constructive, and we’re not going to be in this position of hearing about other plants potentially growing the way of Sutter in another one, two, three years, right? Is that what we’re saying? Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Yeah. So, yes, that is absolutely true with all of our large combined-cycle. So those plants that are in locally-constrained areas that pull gas off of the backbone and that are important to reliability are in good shape. So there are some smaller plants that are (45:19) to see, but we’re not anticipating anything else that looks like Sutter. Brian J. Chin – Bank of America Merrill Lynch Okay. Great. And then, just one question going back to capacity markets in the East Coast. One of your peers yesterday said that they had cleared a project in this year’s auction that didn’t clear in the prior years, and that was largely due to bonus D&A. Should we expect a similar type of behavior in PJM’s capacity market this upcoming year where bonus D&A may change bidding behavior this year versus last year? Trey Griggs – Chief Commercial Officer & Executive VP Yeah. This is Trey. So I’m certainly not a tax expert or on accountant. But my appreciation for the bonus depreciation rules is that the phase-down occurs materially in 2018, disappears entirely after 2019. And so, if there is any effect, I would expect it to be limited. Notably, the New England auction process ensures a seven-year capacity lock, unlike PJM, where that lock does not exist. Also worth noting is the project that cleared or at least a couple of the projects that cleared belong to Strategix (46:26). And my read of the pipeline of new opportunities or potential capacity additions in PJM suggests that it’s a lot of smaller development shops, who I would argue would have a difficult time financing new projects in the current environment. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director And I would just add to that. Everybody is doing the math, and we’ve done the math in our own model. And we came out with something approaching a couple of dollars a kilowatt-month as the advantage that are provided in New England. But given the oil pricing in PJM and the lack of the longer term, I agree with Trey, I think it’s very hard for there to be a read-through. Just on this New England auction, we obviously would have liked to see a higher price. We actually had a unit that could have been a newbuild that we would have contracted. But as you all know, we just closed Granite Ridge last week. And we’ve done our best to reconstruct the economics. And we’re proud of our financial discipline, and we try to be very firm about that. And to us, when we look at Granite Ridge versus a newbuild in New England, we think that the – there’s a several turn of EBITDA multiple if you kind of view these as kind of EBITDA in first full year, you’re avoiding construction risk, and we own assets for $450 a KW cheaper. So what turns the EBITDA less, a lot less risk, the benefits begin accruing immediately and it’s at a 40-plus% discount. So, for us, we are constructive in New England, particularly next year, this comes back, new capacity will be needed. And we think that in that market, the buy versus build has been a more appropriate way to play. Brian J. Chin – Bank of America Merrill Lynch Thank you very much. That’s helpful. Operator And from Deutsche Bank, we have Abe Azar on line. Please go ahead. Abe C. Azar – Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. Good morning. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Good morning, Abe. Abe C. Azar – Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. (48:23) Can you guys discuss why the Mid-Atlantic generation was down year-over-year in Q4? It seems to be a reversal of the trend we’ve seen for most of the year. So, could you discuss that a little bit, maybe there were maintenance outages at play there? Andrew Novotny – Senior Vice President-Commercial Operations Yeah, sure. This is Andrew. Yes. One item that you alluded to was some amount of maintenance of our power plants. Additionally to that, there was maintenance on the Transco pipeline as they got ready to bring on new production in the Leidy area, and this is part of the Leidy Southeast project. That for that temporary period boosted gas prices to our power plants in the Mid-Atlantic. We actually are seeing the reversal distance that project has come on and expect very, very low gas prices for 2016. So, when we look at what happened in the fourth quarter, we say it is an anomalous event. It’s probably not going to be repeated in the current year. Abe C. Azar – Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc. Thank you. That’s helpful. That’s all I have for now. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Thanks, Abe. Operator From Goldman Sachs, we have Michael Lapides on line. Please go ahead. Michael Lapides – Goldman Sachs & Co. Hey, guys. Real quick question on capital allocation. Your capital allocation policies have been very consistent over a number of years. I give you guys credit in terms of being opportunistic buyers and sellers of assets. But do you worry that your capital allocation policies haven’t changed with the market or not? Meaning, you allocate a little bit to buybacks, a little bit to debt reduction, a little bit to growth pretty much most every year using your free cash flow. It seems that the market, clearly, is less comfortable with 5 times EBITDA as you are. It also seems as if the market is valuing the IPP sector very differently than the owners of those assets do. And it also seems in some places the market may be very robustly valuing generation assets and in other places they may be dramatically undervaluing. Do you think or is there a discussion within Calpine about revising the capital allocation process to take more of a view, whether that is a view of dramatically increase the amount of deleveraging you do, given the market’s view across the entire commodities and cyclical complex about companies with 5 times debt to EBITDA? Or is it a dramatically tilt much more to buying back stock if you believe your stock is that cheap? Or using that for asset M&A, meaning, a much more tilt rather than kind of a more equal balance across those three buckets? Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Yeah. Michael, we have not set out to be prescriptive every year in our capital allocation. Rather, it’s been driven by really two things. One is the availability of cash in a particular period. And the second thing being what the opportunity set looks like in a particular period. And we’ve always said that if there’s a great opportunity, we may use all the available cash and the opportunity. And if our stock is cheap and debt markets are free and then there’s an opportunity, and there are no great other opportunities, you buy back more stock. So, I would say, our philosophy hasn’t changed. The market environment continues to change and we’ll obviously react to the market environment that our philosophy is putting our cash towards the direction where we see the most value won’t change. And so, we haven’t set out over the last several years to kind of pro rata get all three, the debt reduction, the share buyback, and the growth. Rather, there have been years in which one has been up and the other has been down based on the opportunity set and this just kind of played out on a more equal basis. So what I’d say is, I think, our view of the world, which is to be balanced, but take advantage of whatever provides the most value at the time based on our best read of the environment is what we’re going to continue to do. Michael Lapides – Goldman Sachs & Co. Got it. And one follow-up question, just a little bit of a read across from the New England capacity auction from this week and this is probably one for either Trey or Andrew. Just curious about the read across from the increased amounts of demand response that cleared year-over-year in New England despite a lower price. What do you think that means; A, for future New England auctions; but B, for capacity auctions elsewhere, especially in markets like PJM? Trey Griggs – Chief Commercial Officer & Executive VP Yeah, Michael. I mean, this is Trey. I didn’t see the same increased clearance in demand response. There certainly was a healthy element of demand response, but it was consistent with prior years and expectations. And so, it’s not exactly the case that you get perfect clarity and their press release is on exactly what happened, but that’s my read of it. And as I mentioned in my prepared remarks with respect to PJM, the same applies with respect to New England, demand response does not frighten us. In fact, it is, given where it clears often times very helpful. Michael Lapides – Goldman Sachs & Co. Got it. Thanks, guys. Much appreciated. Operator And our last question from Citigroup, we have Praful Mehta on the line. Please go ahead. Praful Mehta – Citigroup Global Markets, Inc. (Broker) Hi, guys. I wanted to touch on the Calpine Smile a little bit. With this current low gas price environment, it’s no surprise that your generation went up, makes sense. But I don’t see the increase in EBITDA guidance as in, is it that the spark spreads haven’t held up, or the coal-to-gas switching isn’t as high as you would have expected? What is driving, I guess, the Calpine Smile? Is it working? Is it not working? Because I would think this is probably the best environment for that to work. Trey Griggs – Chief Commercial Officer & Executive VP Yeah. So, from a macro standpoint, you’re absolutely right. Let’s just – high level, we buy gas. Gas prices gets cheaper relative to other feed stocks, and we’re going to run more. Calpine Smile is absolutely intact as you see from our generation statistics that we disclosed on the past quarter. W. Thaddeus Miller – Secretary, Chief Legal Officer & Executive VP Yeah. I mean, and in terms of jumping into some of your detailed points, if you go region by region, there are certain dynamics at play. Certainly, in PJM, we have seen an increase in spark spreads. The low gas equals the left hot (54:37) side of the Smile and we’ve seen PJM let that spark spread to record levels. In Texas, we haven’t really quite gone to the kink of the Smile as the price of coal has been a little bit lower than where the market is, but we may see that now as we head into spring, and gas prices are sub-$2. That being said, one thing that we’ve mentioned before is we’re somewhat gas price agnostic and then there are other factors at play in terms of the total EBITDA. Scarcity during summer, Texas spark spreads, scarcity in PJM and whether demand response hits the market, those are all things that are very meaningful factors. So, in conclusion, yes, the Calpine Smile is still intact. Certainly, relative to any of our peers we’re incredibly gas price agnostic. And you can see from our results from 2015 that we generated 115 million megawatt hours in a low gas price environment. Praful Mehta – Citigroup Global Markets, Inc. (Broker) I got you. Okay, that’s helpful color. So, I guess, Texas, the kink is probably different from where it is in PJM, given the price of coal is lower or has been lowered in Texas. Is that fair? W. Thaddeus Miller – Secretary, Chief Legal Officer & Executive VP Yeah, I think that’s fair for a variety of reasons. The kink is lower in Texas than it is in PJM. Praful Mehta – Citigroup Global Markets, Inc. (Broker) I got you. So just one final question on Texas again. On the ORDC curve review, I know that’s a big driver and all the work that you’ve kind of shown here around the reserve margins, clearly, the ORDC curve needs to work for that to show up in terms of gas margins or spark spreads. Is there any update on where that stands or how you see that playing out, or if it will kick in for this summer? W. Thaddeus Miller – Secretary, Chief Legal Officer & Executive VP Sure. This is Thad Miller again. As you know, there’s been a ERCOT stakeholder process that has looked at it. And at yesterday’s meeting, the PUC in Texas actually briefly discussed it. They are very much occupied these days with the Oncor approval and therefore did not have time to deal with it in detail and deferred it until the April meeting. But our expectation is they see – we hope what we see, which is that the CDR, the ERCOT CDR really belies that Texas is getting tighter as we look forward and that now is the time to modify the ORDC, so it does reflect the scarcity pricing and sends the right price signals to the market. So, we expect that there’d be a workshop or some equivalent to that in the spring of this year with the commission taking action sometime this year. While we’d be hopeful that it would be by this summer, we can’t say that it will be, but we certainly feel that they’re going to deal with it in earnest over the next few months. Praful Mehta – Citigroup Global Markets, Inc. (Broker) I got you. Well, thank you so much, guys. Operator Thank you. We will now turn it back to Thad Hill for closing comments. Thad Hill – President, Chief Executive Officer & Director Great. Well, thanks, everyone, for your interest in Calpine and your time in the call today. I do want to reemphasize the primary messages or the theme of today’s call. We are doing very well. There is a environment out there, which has created on a lot of disruption, but we are keeping our heads down. We are executing according to our plan. We’re delivering on our numbers. And we feel very confident in our business. We’ve always been conservative in the way we manage our business, and we can continue to be that way. As the year goes on, we will have a fair amount of cash to deploy. And our capital allocation philosophy remains intact. We definitely want to make sure we have a strong balance sheet, and that is very important to us. As you can see, there’s some debt pay-down that’s occurring this year. We also think our stock price is cheap. So, we’re going to continue to operate, be conservative and take advantage of the opportunities that lie before us. And we think, certainly, at the current trading levels of Calpine, this is a great point of entry for investors. So, again, thank you for your time and attention. Operator Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today’s conference. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect. Copyright policy: All transcripts on this site are the copyright of Seeking Alpha. However, we view them as an important resource for bloggers and journalists, and are excited to contribute to the democratization of financial information on the Internet. 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Just Energy Group Inc. (JE) Q3 2016 Results – Earnings Call Transcript
Operator Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Just Energy Group Inc. Earnings Conference Call to discuss the Third Quarter of Fiscal Year 2016 Results for the period ended December 31, 2015. At the end of today’s presentation, there will be a formal Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the meeting over to Ms. Deb Merril, Co-CEO, Just Energy Group. Please go ahead. Deborah Merril Good morning everyone. Thank you very much for joining us. My name is Deb Merril. I’m the Co-CEO of Just Energy and I would like to welcome you all to our fiscal 2016 third quarter conference call. I have with me this afternoon our Executive Chair, Rebecca MacDonald; my Co-CEO, James Lewis; as well as Pat McCullough, our CFO. Pat and I will discuss the results of the quarter as well as our expectations for the future. We will then open the call to questions. Before we begin, let me preface the call by telling you that our earnings release and potentially our answers to your questions will contain forward-looking financial information. This information may eventually prove to be inaccurate, so please read the disclaimer regarding such information at the bottom of our press release. We are extremely pleased with the results during the quarter. In fact, throughout the year we have been thrilled to see our strategies and operational initiatives yielding tangible results and what many might view as rather turbulent times. We will undoubtedly be asked about the negative adds we reported this quarter, but we are managing this business for the long term. At the beginning of this year we said we will only focus on high margin customers and the health of our balance sheet. We could have easily shown positive adds by chasing low margin business. We will not do that. If that yields short-term negative adds for the sake of long-term accretive cash we will pursue that every single quarter. However, we are planning growth and we have tremendous opportunity to achieve that goal. We will grow through additional products, markets, customers and partnerships that will deliver value to our customers and growth for our business. Once again this quarter our business continued to perform very well, delivering strong revenue, margin and earnings growth. The margin per customer improvement initiative is allowing us to convert solid top-line sales growth into consistent increases in Base EBITDA. This profitability is also driving significantly improved cash flow and increased Base Funds from continuing operations. I’d like to start by discussing the broader market dynamics. I think that will help highlight something we have been trying to articulate for some time now. Just Energy offers a diversified, differentiated and resilient business model that is less impacted by broader market trends. In short, today’s market challenges do not directly impact Just Energy. We feel this business model, [deleveraged] balance sheet, stable yield and earnings growth places Just Energy in a unique position to weather market turbulence. I think it is safe to say these are uncertain times, whether it be questions around the price and direction of oil, concerns about China demand, the European economy or even the weather quite honestly. With this backdrop of uncertainty, our results demonstrate that Just Energy is able to show financial strength despite volatile and uncertain economic times. For example, we have seen a dramatic drop in oil prices over the last several months. We are not directly affected as our core business is gas and electricity and in fact we are actually benefiting financially from the effects of low oil. The Canadian dollar is correlated to the price of oil. As the Canadian dollar weakens our largely US dominated profit translates to higher Canadian cash flows. Today Just Energy is concentrated in North America markets with little exposure to weakening international markets. Despite this weakness, we believe our high return on invested capital, low CapEx, organic growth model can still thrive in these markets. Weather volatility is an important variable that we invest a great deal of intellectual resources in managing our portfolio effectively. We have seen a very mild start to this winter season. I have frequently stated that we are best in class at managing weather volatility around our business. While consumption of natural gas is abnormally low right now, our ability to manage this effectively is demonstrated by our excellent profit results this quarter. The low and stable gas and electricity prices that we have experienced have resulted in less [attractive] customer shopping. This compares to a very volatile economic environment in the last few years when heightened levels of customer switching was greatly benefiting Just Energy’s ability to add net customers at an exceptional rate. As a result, during the quarter we did see a decline in year-over-year growth additions, as well as negative net additions… [Audio Gap] Performance-based growth. Let me clarify that same picture for the year-to-date results for the first nine months of the year. Base EBITDA of $140.3 million for the first nine months grew 25% even while absorbing $10.5 million of commercial prepaid commission expense. Excluding the impact of prepaid commission expense, we actually grew year-over-year Base EBITDA by $38.3 million or 34% during the quarter. In addition to the $10.5 million in commercial commission expense, year-to-date we also had a $12.9 million contribution from the weaker Canadian dollar and $25.4 million in performance based growth. In short, both the quarter and the year-to-date have demonstrated strong operational results. We continue to effectively manage overhead cost. General and administrative expenses declined year-over-year after taking into account the impact of the stronger dollar and US based cost. Selling and marketing expenses increased by over 27% from the same quarter last year. However, nearly all of the increase was driven by the stronger dollar and prepaid commission expense. Similar to general and administrative expenses our fixed sales and marketing costs were essentially flat year-over-year after that adjustment. Let me close with an update on our other key financial metrics and balance sheet items. The pay-out ratio from Base Funds from continuing operations was 70% for the three months ending December 31, 2015 compared to 88% reported in the same quarter of fiscal 2015. On a trailing 12 month basis, the pay-out ratio has now declined to 59%. We ended the quarter with $90.8 million in cash and cash equivalents, an increase of 115% from $42.3 million in the year ago period. We reported no debt outstanding on the credit facility at quarter end consistent with a year ago. The increase in cash balances and credit facility availability over the past year have resulted in $112 million of additional liquidity. At quarter end, long-term debt was $676.5 million, an increase of 5% year-over-year due to the foreign currency impact on the US denominated $150 million convertible euro bonds. Book value net debt was 2.9x the 12-month trailing Base EBITDA, significantly improved from 3.7 times just one year ago. During the quarter we also purchased $1 million of the $330 million convertible debentures under our NCIB program. Life to date, which is all in fiscal 2016, $5.5 million of the $330 million convertible debentures have been repurchased under this program. Turning now to the outlook, the business has delivered outstanding results in the first nine months of fiscal 2016. To reflect this progress we now believe that the company will achieve the high end of our previously provided fiscal 2016 Base EBITDA guidance range of $193 million to $203 million resulting in an expected double-digit percentage growth over the prior year. This includes approximately $20 million of incremental deductions in Base EBITDA related to the change to some commercial commission terms. As I previously outlined $10.5 million of this has already occurred in the first nine months of fiscal 2016. Therefore we expect roughly $10 million to hit our fourth quarter. When adjusted for the $20 million effect from the change in classification, year-over-year Base EBITDA is expected to increase 20% in fiscal 2016. In line with what we have demonstrated over the first nine months of fiscal 2016 we expect to offset this headwind with continued strong gross margin performance and foreign-exchange benefit. Looking further out in fiscal year 2017, we expect to achieve double-digit percentage Base EBITDA growth over fiscal 2016. Included in this expectation is deductions in base EBITDA of approximately $40 million for prepaid commercial commissions, which would previously have been included as amortization within selling and marketing expenses. This represents a $20 million increase over fiscal 2016 and reflects a go forward run rate for this incremental deduction in future years. With that I will turn it over to Deb for some concluding remarks. Deborah Merril Thank you, Pat. We are excited and confident about our path forward and our ability to drive continued growth as Pat just provided you in our outdated guidance. We are deploying our strategy to become a world class consumer enterprise. We will do this by delivering superior value to our customers through a range of energy management solutions and a multi-channel approach. Our growth plans center on geographic expansion, structuring superior product value propositions, and enhancing the portfolio of energy management offerings. The company’s geographic expansion is centered on Europe. Our UK business is thriving and we are successfully adding both consumers and commercial customers and the overall business is significantly profitable. We believe this early success validates our model and our ability to compete outside of North America taking the lessons learnt and evaluating new avenues for growth in new markets that will benefit from our innovative approach to energy management solutions. Given our greatly improved financial position, we are actively evaluating new market opportunities and we expect to expand our offering into two new European nations within the next 18 months. From a product innovation perspective we believe a large part of our ongoing success will be driven by our ability to provide innovative products that offer a superior value proposition to our customers. For example, our flat bill product is bringing more value to our customers than traditional industry products. This allows consumers ultimate predictability, removing the price and volume risk from customers’ bills by guaranteeing them the same price every month for their energy supply regardless of any volatility. We can demonstrate greater than average margins on the product as customers see the value in the predictability. We are finding innovative products are gaining more appeal and delivering more value. This in turn allows us to price our energy management solutions at more premium points while retaining customers for longer durations and driving sustainable profitability for the future. Included in this is Just Energy Solar. The initial solar pilot program remains on track and based on early success further expansion in California and the Northeast is underway. We are finding that the extension of the incentive tax credit for five years is unlocking new capital in the form of debt and equity financing, as well as providing for much-needed additional installation capacity. As a result of the available financing and unlocking of capacity constraints, we expect that solar will contribute approximately $10 million towards our fiscal 2017 results. We are operating from a greatly improved financial position and our strategy is proving our ability to consistently deliver throughout any cycle. Our improved profitability, cash flow generation and overall financial flexibility combined with our commitment to maintaining a capital light model supports our ability to pursue our growth strategy while remaining committed to future dividend distributions and balance sheet restructuring. We are confident in our ability to become a premier world-class consumer enterprise delivering superior customer value through a range of energy management solutions and a multi-channel approach. We would also like to take a few minutes to once again thank the employees of Just Energy for making these results possible. As a leadership team we are very fortunate to have a group of employees that deliver results and believe in the future of our company. Thank you for all you do for the business we operate, the customers we serve and the communities which we live in. With that, we’ll now open for questions. Question-and-Answer Session Operator Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] And our first question from CIBC we have Kevin Chiang. Please go ahead, sir. Kevin Chiang Hi, thanks for taking my question. Maybe just first on solar, I guess over the past week or so we are seeing some pressure on some solar names reflecting some concerns I guess over changes in state tax credits in the US, as well as maybe a slowing of the installed base there. Given this is a growth strategy for you I’m just wondering what you are seeing on the ground and if your strategy around solar has changed recently as a result of some of these maybe new hurdles? Deborah Merril Yes, Kevin, I think the markets that we are focusing on we are not seeing that happening. California and Northeast continue to be the areas of focus for us and our strategy has not changed at all and we are absolutely planning on looking at new markets, but we will be very careful about some of those volatile tax credits that you are talking about, but for now we are not seeing any impact for the areas we are focused on. Kevin Chiang Okay, that is helpful and just on the net adds, I guess maybe a two part question here, you have seen some – I guess some headwinds in some of your unit metrics, are you seeing any structural headwinds in your current markets that is driving your international expansion. And then, more broadly speaking I know you’re focusing on higher margin customers, but is there a point within the drag on that stress to have a negative impact on the overall operating leverage within your operation so that we saw aggregation cost move up because of that in this past quarter. Is there a point that you need to have a minimum level RCEs in order to generate the margins you want to generate within your overall consolidated results? Patrick McCullough Okay. Before I break the question apart on the RCE question there, when we look at it obviously we’ve to have customers in order to make money. But, what we’re seeing here and what we believe is that it makes sense for us to go after the customers that drive the high value for the appropriate level of risk versus trying to cut back the margin and take the same level risk there. And when that happens you see that the smaller players or even some of the larger players that leave the marketplace there. So, we’ve done a much better job here, I just want to tell you, what really drives value and customers behavior and develop products that address those needs. Rebecca MacDonald And Kevin you mentioned something about international expansion, that’s only going to add additional opportunity for us. So, we’ve seen, even – quite a fact that the U.K. was our first foray into the international expansion which is one of the most penetrated market – one of the most deregulated markets for the longest period of time. Whilst we’re still seeing some really positive results there. So, we’ll definitely focus on places that we truly believe will benefit from some of the innovative that will bring in the market. Deborah Merril Apparently Rebecca, I just do want to step into this, the management of JE what I called the Rockstar management of JE these days could have easily signed up a low margin on a commercial side business and that used to be down in old days. We’ve stepped away from it very, very consciously because it’s a mugs game and we don’t want to be in a mugs game. We want to be in a value creation with a healthy margin. And we’ll do that all day long, it’s not about putting on the books number of very small margin customers that can actually have a very negative impact to our margin and bottom-line. For us it is growing from the strength and growing from a margin strength and we’ll not change our approach whatsoever. James Lewis I might as well jump into since all three of them have this well. Do you think how passionate we’re about this topic? First of all, the idea around international growth is largely to do with leveraging our business model which is an advantage for us in those markets. It’s not some type of reaction to what’s happening in North America, in fact, we understand very well what’s happening in North America and those improved margin levels are more than offsetting that absorption issue you’re thinking about on a customer acquisition cost basis, hence the EBITDA growth outpacing gross margin when you start to pull apart prepay commissions etcetera. So, we’re very confident in what we’re doing and we just see an opportunity to grow for the accretive cash and profit basis not as a reaction to something that we see as a negative. Deborah Merril And just to add to that Kevin, we don’t want to manage business on quarter-to-quarter basis, we know we’re public company, we’ve to give you quarterly results. We’re managing business on a long term basis, our business plan is looking towards 2020 and we hope that shareholders that support us are looking at this business long term not quarter-to-quarter. Thanks. Kevin Chiang That’s all very helpful. I just have a follow-up. A question if I’m wrong here. I was under the impression so like a year or 18 months ago that there were number of smaller players that you competed with that were force to exit the business because of the impact of the polar vortex on the balance sheet. Given what you’re seeing in that ads would you call this maybe the overall pie is getting smaller because energy prices are little bit lower here, so there is less of an incentive for customers to switch to whatever the part excel there today or is the pie the same size or maybe actively choosing to not be as aggressive in the marketplace to maintain your market share? James Lewis Kevin, it’s the later so when you look at in some markets you have utilities that have over collected and so consumers are getting the credit now from the decline in gas pricing. And so, the pie is the same. We want to make sure that we are delivering customers things of value Pat and Deb both talked about the flat bill and we have thermostat and green so and we focus on the market where it makes sense and that’s what we will continue to do as Rebecca said it’s about making sure we deliver value for the long-term there and this phenomenal here of this credit is really a short-term item here from the over collections. Kevin Chiang Thank you very much. Deborah Merril Thanks Kevin. Operator And next in the line from FBR, we have Carter Driscoll, please go ahead sir. Carter Driscoll Good morning. Just maybe drawn down a little bit into from the expectations we saw over next year, are those specifically to the two pilots you were currently conducting, is there any expansion to other state built into that estimate and maybe talk about your margin for what expectations which is above below in line with what you were seeing in the early parts of the pilots and maybe the expectations that are built into that 2017 expectation and I have a couple of follow-ups to it? Deborah Merril Okay. So Carter, we absolutely will be expanding beyond for those initial two markets it will probably happen mid way through the year, but our plan is to be in I think there were three or four additional markets we’re actually looking at. So we will definitely see beyond the two initial ones and what was your follow-up question? Carter Driscoll Just in terms of what you are seeing on a margin per lot basis that you had an initial thoughts couple of quarters ago and just how that is potentially evolved as you have started to ramp up a number of customers maybe any differences between the two states and or expectations with the ones you are considering entering and then if you could provide any potential kind of blended number that goes into that $10 million EBITDA bump that you are expecting for next fiscal year would be appreciated? Patrick McCullough So Carter, let me give you the relative answer and then I think it goes without saying that as solar becomes material to us, we are going to have really break this down in detail and really segment out the major differences in profit and cash flow. We like the margin that we have seen as we mentioned a quarter ago publicly. We are aware that other third parties in the industry that have scale can hold as much as $1,500 origination income to the bottom-line. We are hoping to do as well of that if not better at scale. We haven’t proven that yet. New York as you know is tougher market economically for solar than California is, so California can have stronger margins for us on the bottom-line, New York will be a bit harder but still a very impressive return relative to what we have made historically. And then, as we get into each new state as Deb mentioned there is obviously a different economic equation but we are thinking about this as the industry does and I think we can hold at least what those third parties hold today. So, as we are thinking about that $10 million that’s the type of thinking we are applying to it. Carter Driscoll And then, not to be beat up on the question from what Kevin posed in terms of net adds, but are there any pockets of geographic weakness or maybe that’s surprised maybe I don’t know Texas let’s sort out there domestically. And then, is there I am sure you’ve internal forecast of what you are going to grow domestically or your targets domestically for net adds versus internationally maybe you can compare and contrast those two as you expand into those two new target markets. And is there any way you could identify those target markets internationally that you are talking about those target countries I should say? James Lewis Okay, I will take the first part of the question there. We look at it, so for example let’s say Alberta, Alberta gas price is like $1.96 or so — some points there and we look at the usage to our customer bill about $100 or $150 there for average customer the intent of that Pat talked about earlier just it is in there sometimes, but when you bundle those products together with electricity, with green, with the smart thermostat with another product there, customers do see the value. We get some short-term tailwinds from the low commodity prices and over collections we think that will go away and we think our approach to focusing on the markets that we can drive the best value is a better long-term strategy. On your question about state of Texas one of the things that you have seen in the Texas market here, you haven’t seen a lot of printing of prices over the last couple of summers and I think what happens in some people’s mind is that they might look at that and price it differently, we know from a overall risk management perspective that is not a great idea. We have a very strong and solid risk management strategy which allows us to weather the Polar Vortex to warm winter and the extreme summers. So I think when you think about long-term our approach is proven solid, we have been around for 19 years and we continue to think we are going to be around for another 19. Deborah Merril So Carter, on your international expansion question, right now we are actively pursuing licenses and partnerships and in about three to four markets right now. So we are looking at Ireland and we are looking at Continental Europe places like Germany, the Netherlands. We are also having an eye out for Japan, so we are pursuing some due diligence on those so we are still in the phase of really trying to find make sure that next one we point to and actively go into with the right one, but we have about five or six on our radar screen right now. Rebecca MacDonald Carter, its Rebecca. I just want to just go back around the customer add, you have to appreciate over the last 19 years our sector has fundamentally change a great deal. We’ve seen what I call good, bad and the ugly come in and leave the business. So, the future of the business is not about adding molecules, what I call molecules customers the future of the business is adding customers that are actually getting number of products from us and that really will be ongoing basis over the next ten years or so. Carter Driscoll Yes, I understand. I had those, there is different, I think they are just different perspectives within your competitors that there is a lot of low hanging fruits still remaining to take away from the utilities based business versus up selling with bundle products and I think there is a potentially mix between the two. And you guys I think currently have chosen the higher margin value side of it which is proving the right strategy for you right now. Deborah Merril We always are the opportunistic. Carter Driscoll Yes, I understand. I will get back in queue and take the rest in call. Thank you very much. Operator From RBC Capital Market we have Nelson Ng. Please go ahead sir. Nelson Ng Okay thanks. I had a quick question on the price 17 converts, can you provide an update in terms of your, in terms of progress on refinancing that tranche and I guess obviously the high yield markets are in a very difficult environment, so what options are still on the table for you guys? Patrick McCullough Yes, thanks Nelson. This is Pat. So yes, the debt market, high yield markets are not a pretty place today not compared to a year ago. But deals are still getting done. Our preference is to not go out with new instruments that have an equity hooked to them. We see the cost of capital associated with a convert or an equity issuance being very high relative to even a high yield type piece of debt. The 330 is maturing in July 2017, our credit facility has a spring back a few months ahead of that. Our goal is to get this completely accomplished in this calendar year, we would love to do it in the next quarter or two but if the debt markets aren’t there for us we will be patient. We have had unsolicited equity hook type offers made to the company that gives us a lot of confidence that we will get this done. There is an appetite for that out there which will allow us to completely restructure those 330s with the 100 or 125 million of available liquidity we have on our own balance sheet. So, we are confident that this gets done. We are utilizing many counter parties including our Canadian bank syndicate leaders to help us navigate that there is new parties that are pursuing our business, but we are trying to do this in a way that protects the equity shareholders so that as we deliver earnings and unlock a multiple, we get the amplification effect of not having future dilution out there for them. But we have said publicly we want to protect the dividend. We believe we can afford that provided we restructure this successfully. We want to make sure there is no new dilution put on the board and we will do our best to take any existing dilution risk off the board that remains the goal. There is no reason to give up on that yet. We are patient. We are prudent. But we are realistic too we will make sure we get this done in this calendar year ideally much sooner than that. Nelson Ng Okay. Thanks for that. My next question is just, I guess I can’t help but ask about the net customer adds. But on the commercial side you saw jump in non-renewals like were there any kind of large customers that didn’t renew or was there a general increase in non-renewals? James Lewis No, it across the board there, on the larger side there and but for us larger is probably smaller to some of the market competitors out there. We look at it let’s say the thousand and above RCE when we think about it. But as we talk about not chasing those customers if the margin targets are not there for us and that’s what we have chosen to do. And you are right, year-over-year you see a series of renew increase there but that’s by design on our part to make sure that we are only bringing in profitable customers. We have seen even I don’t have idea Nelson, a couple of competitors get out of the market and commercial arena and what they have done is gone after the low margin larger customers and they’ve realized after couple of years if they get to sell the business or the market changes that’s it’s not profitable. And we have seen two or three competitors of substantial size look to get out and sell their book of business. Nelson Ng I see. And then, I guess on that in terms of, I guess focusing on margin versus increase in the competitor landscape like what’s the mix how like how would you characterize those customers not renewing, is it like I know it’s very qualitative but how much of it is due to I guess your focus on margins versus just they are being more competition kind of chasing these customers? James Lewis Yes, not being more competition, our focus is our margin and then the way we manage risk. So Pat and Deb talked about earlier this December was extremely warm. And you can look at it two different ways you can look at somebody might have decide not to have weather hedge on and how did it impact from that and we chose to have one on and this summer time people can make an assumption that maybe weather won’t show up in Texas and take a risk but we’ve sort of seen over the last few years somebody may take a $50 million hit or a $100 million hit from those types of facts that’s just not the market that we are in, we don’t want to take those bets. Rebecca MacDonald Nelson, Rebecca, I would just like to add one more time, if we wanted to keep those customers at almost no margins we could have and we could have said okay, we are keeping them because they would look pretty on the books when we report. But what we are doing is much higher. We could have taken an easy road out and said no problem we will get all of these renewed at a razor thin margin that don’t even cover our cost and the world is a happy place. But, we went with a very high decision and we fundamentally will never change that decision. It’s hard to do the right thing but it’s the right thing to do the hard thing. And whoever wants those customers welcome to have them. Patrick McCullough Let’s just revisit our strategy for a second. Historically we have been openly critical of ourselves that we were too much of a commodity in the marketplace with less value differentiating us in our customers’ mind. So, as we are migrating towards looking for those customers that value more than a low commodity price there is going to be some turnover and some transition in our book that’s what we are managing every day, every week. But it’s an important thing that we are managing because there is cash flow coming off of those old commodity types of deals that we need to respect and enjoy and really invest in the future strategy here. But, we are targeting those customers that find value and other things than low price so there is got to be a turnover of our book to some extent managing that well, ensuring there is accretive margin bottom-line profit in cash is what management’s all about. That’s what we’re focused on. We think we’ve done a great job at that. We think we can do that next year too. We think we can deliver guidance even if we don’t put up 100s or 1000s of RCEs on the full-year basis. Nelson Ng Okay. So, thanks, Pat. So, just to clarify for fiscal ’17. In terms of the guidance of double digit growth. So, could that be achieved if there is like no net growth in RCEs? Patrick McCullough As you know, it depends on the margins that we can continue to pull and how fast we get full traction on the value oriented products that we have. And frankly how fast Solar in the international markets hit the bottom-line as well. So, we’re upselling more profit, more value, to North American and in traditional customers. We’re going into new markets with a superior product portfolio and not having to transition from the old we’re selling to the new. We have a lot of levers in play in fiscal ’17. We’re thinking about everything from incremental prepaid commission that we have to overcome, what OpEx going to do. Because that’s material to our results and then these growth initiatives. Today, we are confident to say we can overcome another 20 million of prepaid commissions. We can weather currency volatility and still deliver 10% earnings growth because of all these things. But we’ll obviously be monitoring this every month and every quarter and talking to you about it. But right now we have great confidence that we can do that. Nelson Ng Okay. Thanks, Pat. And then just one last question. In terms of the competitive landscape, like obviously there has been some consolidation in this space. But we’ve also seen say ATCO enter the space, enter the retail space in Alberta. Have you seen more competitors enter the space due to I guess the low energy prices? James Lewis I think it’s probably net neutral, if not shrinking. So, yes, ATCO enter, just recently we saw Senoko [ph] Energy buy a book of business two traditional utility. But then you saw a FirstEnergy get out a little while ago, and [indiscernible] part of their business. So, and you’ve seen a lot of smaller players get out and some new players get in. So, I think that each company evaluate their strategy. They’re trying to take advantage of opportunity, they’re getting out of places where they don’t think it’s the right return on their capital. So, probably net neutral too little bit of shrinking. Nelson Ng Okay. Thanks, Jay. Those are my questions. James Lewis You’re welcome. Operator From TD Securities, we have Damir Gunja. Please go ahead, Sir. Damir Gunja Thanks, good morning. Patrick McCullough Good morning. Damir Gunja Can you just touch on the effects assumed in your forward double-digit EBITDA guidance? Patrick McCullough Yes. So, as we’re looking towards the future, we are expecting to have some strengthening of the Canadian dollar. We’ve talked recently in the past about 10% movement on the CAD to the U.S. dollar, generally, is putting up about 2 million a quarter of EBITDA or $8 million annually. So, one of the assumptions that we built in our forward look is a little bit of Canadian dollar recovery and we think we can offset that with operational performance. Damir Gunja Just to be clear, you’re not forecasting a 10% lift in your guidance? Patrick McCullough We are forecasting a 10% base EBITDA improvement after factoring in pre-paid commissions thinking about our assumptions on effects which obviously we’re not going to be changing guidance for effects, we think we can manage that volatility. But picking up the growth, the performance based growth that we planned. Damir Gunja Okay. But not a 10% lift in the Canadian dollar, that’s not in your list? Patrick McCullough No. Damir Gunja Okay. Patrick McCullough All right. That’s now we said, I’m just trying to put it in perspective of for every 10 percentage point change, that’s where the 8 million. Damir Gunja Got it. Patrick McCullough On the basis of 220ish next year. Damir Gunja Okay. So, zero effects benefit in your guidance essentially. Patrick McCullough Correct. Damir Gunja On the existing book of business, I was just wondering if you can help us sort of understand. How would you characterize the existing book relative to the new bundle prior margin contracts that you’re bringing in? How much of the book would be even in rough percentage terms, would 80% of the book be materially below the current margins you’re brining on or is it flipped, is it only 20? Deb Merril I’d say the penetration for kind of the new initiatives that we tied up the last call it two year, 18 to 24 month. I always give the analogy we’re kind of in the bottom of the fourth inning of this game. So, we’re probably our existing portfolio is probably more like the 80/20 80 old, maybe 70/30 old and versus new. That’s just a rough. James Lewis I think one of the things when you think about the overall business here, what do you think that we’ve done a really good job of. We constantly have improved our risk management. We have a great team out there that does a wonderful job working for best in class world class ways of managing risk. Our suppliers as well have worked with us to make sure that we’re best in class in this are. So, we continue to look for ways to deliver more value out there. So, we think when it comes to an absolute cost basis, that there is nobody better than what we are on commodity cost there. The risk management in our margin requirements might be different. But our risk management group and traders out there are best in class. Damir Gunja Okay. Maybe a final one for me. Just I’m intrigued by the flat bill product. I guess, what percentage of new business that you’re bringing in is flat bill at the moment. Deb Merril We actually have the flat bill in six markets now, six states in provinces and in some markets that’s almost all what will bring in, other market say we have a lot of different products that are offered, so it might be a smaller percentage. But for instance Ontario, that is the 100% of what we felt. And Illinois, it’s a product, but it’s not a 100% of what we saw up overselling but it is in fixed market now. James Lewis The big issue or that holds this back or moving it out to a lot of other market is sometimes the utility on the other side. You can only hold out a new market where the utility billing sessions allow it. And so that’s why we can look for a way to drive innovation, because we believe in order to innovate, you got to have the improved customer experience. And in those markets where we’ve been allowed to do innovative things, we’ve seen better customer experience, a higher customer growth, all better customer satisfaction. And so, we’ll continue to push the leverage there as we move forward. Damir Gunja So, we’re sure to say that flat bill and maybe green products are sort of the two main drivers between the higher margins? James Lewis Flat bill, green products are [indiscernible]. We have some other items that like we’re looking at to continue to drive value, there. Deb Merril We have in some market we’re bundling LED light bulbs which help and be more efficient. So, it’s about not only increasing margin per customer, but reducing attrition as well. Damir Gunja Okay. And just a final one from me. Your solar guidance of about 10 million in EBITDA I guess backing in to the origination fees, am I correct in thinking that that’s about 6% and 1000 customers, roughly, per contract? Patrick McCullough It’s in the ballpark, yes, based on what we see third parties making. Damir Gunja Okay. Patrick McCullough Remember, our income in the future is going to be a result of find the contracts which are accepted by our fulfilment counter parties with a claw back reserve applied to that. So, when we’re thinking about $10 million, we’re thinking about signed deals. So, the point of signature really about a week after that not the pointed installation. So, we do get to recognize profit at the point that our activity finishes. But we’ll have to put a call back reserve for deals that get signed, get approved, and don’t actually get installed. That’s the nature of this industry. Damir Gunja Okay. That’s helpful. Thank you. Operator [Operator Instructions] And from Rodman & Renshaw, we have Aleem Dayle [ph]. Please go ahead, Sir. Unidentified Analyst Thank you. Most of my questions have been asked already. Just wanted to get a sense of our ability to maintain pricing and margins. Should we expect more competition for these higher margin customers or is our product differentiation sort of a moot around these customers, if you could add some color for this, on this please. Patrick McCullough So, maybe I can start. We really believe we’re one of the only players in the six markets with a flat bill product, which is a great differentiator especially if energy commodity volatility comes back to those markets. So, if you think about low stable energy prices, the motivation to switch or to lock in security with a flat bill product is not as high today as it was on the edge of the polar vortex or the hot summers in Texas that we’ve seen several years ago. So, we like the fact that we’re bringing a product like that, a product structure to market that others aren’t. When you think about solar or bundling other renewable solutions, there is a great advantage for retailers who can bring solar assets to their customers. And the biggest advantage there is, we understand the customers and we can serve them, they’re off peak power in deregulated markets. We can potentially bundle other things together to arbitrage the local economics associated with power. So, everything that we’re doing when you think about our product strategy, our bundling strategy, in getting broader with energy management solutions for our customers, is to do exactly what you’re asking about. Differentiate, have a superior value proposition and have fundamentally and economic mode versus all of our competitors. We think we’re ahead of the game. We think the strategy is right, but we have a lot of work to do to stay at. Unidentified Analyst Right. And on the gross margin side, should we be looking for further improvements potentially in the near term, driven by these product differentiation factors or is this the level we kind of should expect at least for next one of few quarters? Patrick McCullough Yes. The products that we can sell per customer are clearly going to go up. So, one of the things we have talked about in the past is this idea of gross margin per RCE that we report to that. Is very effective if you’re selling commodity alone. But we are looking to bundle more products per customer. So, your margin per customer will certainly go up. Your margin for RCE won’t even be understood in the future. So, it’s hard to answer your question because what you’ll see us doing over the next two years is transitioning away from the way that we showcase our profit per RCE and show you more profit per product profit per customer type of matrix. Unidentified Analyst Understood. Thank you, that’s all I have. Deb Merril Thank you. Operator We have no further questions at this time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes today’s conference. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect. Patrick McCullough Thank you. Operator Thank you. Copyright policy: All transcripts on this site are the copyright of Seeking Alpha. However, we view them as an important resource for bloggers and journalists, and are excited to contribute to the democratization of financial information on the Internet. (Until now investors have had to pay thousands of dollars in subscription fees for transcripts.) 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